Out of Office: Experiences to Guide Success for Remote Work — Natalie Cantave
Remote work unexpectedly became standard in 2020. While working remotely can be empowering and productive, without the right infrastructure or approach, it can also be terrible. These interviews explore individual remote work experiences in the hopes that through sharing what works and what doesn’t you can find new ideas to try out for yourself or your team.
Natalie Cantave (she/her) is the Associate Director of Marketing and Design at Electives. Natalie is from New Jersey, has lived in Somerville MA for 5 years, and currently lives in Boston. Her entry into remote work came with the pandemic, as did launching MKTG WMN, a powerful (and free) community to empower and connect women in marketing (including designers/creatives) with her co-founder Gabrielle.
Topics we explore:
- Recreating the boundaries between work/life with remote work
- Co-working in new spaces with non-coworkers
- Building routines for remote work
- The larger opportunity for community with a more connected world
Someday we’ll be those people that want to join Chief, but there isn’t a network for people who are younger, to learn from other leaders or even just learn from each other. And I think there’s a lot that we can learn from each other, whether it’s someone in operations or sales. There were so many different synergies but there’s just not something out there… And I think from the pandemic, the world has opened up so much and it’s like, why not let more of the synergies intersect?
At the start of the pandemic Natalie was working in an office in Boston, and very happy with the separation of home and work that provided. However, not only did Natalie roll with the changes that the pandemic threw her way, but she went big and co-founded a community that is thriving for women in marketing and transitioned into a remote-first company in a leadership role.
Let’s start with what your office experience has been since you went from in-person roles to remote during the pandemic. Did you ever have an office or were you in an open floor plan?
I never had an office. My first job out of college was the cubicle setting, which was nice to be in a section with my team. It felt weird to be in an open floor plan, after changing jobs, because I felt people were watching me and what I’m doing and making sure I’m productive. I definitely hid more in phone booths or a secret spot in the office where I could hide but get work done. But I did like where I could turn around and say ‘hi’ to someone I knew or knowing if someone was in the office and ask a question, just go right up to them instead of putting time on the calendar. The feeling of the observation and knowing that, not big brother, but a manager or an executive is watching is weird for me about an open office floor plan. I like being able to have conversations with people, but if I’m heads down, I think a little bit conscious of who’s watching me work. I want to be trusted that I’m getting my work done.
Did you ever have anybody make a remark or is this how you felt?
I think it was how I felt, especially being a black woman in the tech space. I felt another sense of being watched, but more so I feel like I had to prove that I was being productive more and that my eyes were on way more. I don’t think I’ve ever had a remark where it was a negative thing from a superior, if anything, people around my level or friends at work we just joked ‘oh my god look you’re watching the (March Madness) game’, but then we’d ask, ‘what’s the score?’ for fun, not you’re not doing your job kind of a thing, but I think definitely it’s psychological to a point.
Busy versus productive is an interesting topic with the shift from in-person to remote. Now that you’ve experienced in-office and remote work, what are your feelings on being busy versus productive?
I’m now in a job that I am really excited about the challenges and fulfilled in. I liked the work I was doing but I think now it’s more in touch with who I am and what I want. It felt like a busy productive day in the office was a lot of time that I spent in meetings and I think it still translates in a remote world to a busier day being on camera all day because you’re in meetings. It’s busy because you’re more present and having conversations, but in terms of tasks getting done, it’s not technically productive.
During the pandemic, if I didn’t get a lot of my tasks done, I felt like I needed to stay on longer and actually do those tasks which meant there was a blend of my work and home life versus now my reframing of productivity has changed. I really look at my meetings of the week and think about, ‘Okay, what is the goal of each meeting?’ Now I dedicate more time to actually sitting down and getting tasks done. There are some times during the week where if I’m, say, having writer’s block and I have no meetings the rest of the day, I’m just going to go to the gym. It’s a way for me to step away physically from the screen and do something that activates my brain. Sometimes I get an idea while I’m doing an exercise and write on my phone but also I think just that separation is nice to get a break. Then I come back and shower and I look with a new mindset instead of feeling I’m forced to figure it out on the spot. I give myself that permission to give myself that break instead of sitting there for 30 minutes super distracted and not figuring it out. So I think it’s that sense of productivity has changed for me.
That’s the key to productivity, recognizing when you’re not being productive and making a change instead of sitting there and banging your head against the keyboard. It’s great you’ve found a way to activate your brain like that. When the pandemic started, you had an in-person role that suddenly went to remote, what was that transition like for you?
When the pandemic hit, I definitely struggled with being at home a lot. I was working at a company where we had a lot of external-facing events where I enjoyed the aspect of community and networking and getting to know people. It felt 100 to zero being stuck at home and I would describe myself as not a homebody. I like being out and about and having a routine and I always felt the commute was part of that routine. I felt that separation between work and home, especially working at the time in downtown Boston. I lived across the river so that actual crossing the river for me was, ‘Okay, I’m separating from work and home’ and when the worlds collided, it was really hard and a challenge for me.
Were you able to adapt your work/home separation while staying remote?
Now, since two years of the pandemic, it’s changed for me. I’m at a job that is primarily remote, but I take advantage of leaving the house in a different way. There are times where now I just appreciate going to a local coffee shop and seeing people around me work. I can sit at a table for a few hours with headphones, order a sandwich or coffee, and feel productive. So I think it’s different how I look now at working remotely where I do not have to be stuck at home. I like being able to know that I’m focused in an environment but also creating some routine where I get out of the house and then when I come home, it’s my sanctuary. It’s changed how I work but also valuing home life more and separating work. When it’s time to not work, it’s time to unwind at home. I’m still not perfect at it but now with the weather getting nicer it’s definitely been more inspiring for me to want to be out and about.
Have you been able to find a replacement for that in-office community aspect?
I actually tried it for the first time yesterday with a woman named Trish, who I’ve known through the Boston tech world (and Twitter). I co-worked with her at the Boston Public Library for the first time ever. I’d never been inside the Boston Public Library ever since I’ve lived in the Boston area, and it was such a nice change. She had messaged me, ‘we should try co-working together’ and yesterday we found a table by big windows and spent the morning just sitting across from each other. We had our own headphones on but doing some work and then for lunch we went to a restaurant that was part of Dine Out Boston week. We were walking from the Boston Public Library near the public garden where the restaurant was, and we both asked ‘Oh, how did you feel? Do you feel like you got work done?’ We both thought it was still productive. It was nice to have that change. Trish works in a very different company than I do; we’re in very different roles, but it was nice to talk about our work.
That’s really cool. What do you feel like this adds to your days working remotely?
I think it would build a lot of camaraderie. It feels like college 2.0 but adulting, where you would study and book a study room with friends and you all have different classes or similar classes. But in this case, you’re getting work done and there’s space where you’re talking about an interesting article or this book is so interesting or this topic and you’re having really interesting intellectual conversations.
I’d like to think productivity would go up because you’re seeing someone else work. You’re still connecting with people, just in a super different way.
The possibilities are exciting, so much cross-pollination and networking that’s not possible in a traditional office setting. Also it’s hard to beat working in a beautiful space like the Boston Library. Speaking of spaces, you’ve co-founded an online one that has drawn hundreds of women, like myself, to it during covid. How did that come to be?
Gabrielle and I first actually met pre-pandemic at a conference, young women in digital marketing, which is a great networking group for women in the Boston area but we were both working for B2B companies and a lot of the content was a little more focused for the B2C market (think Dunkin Donuts, New Balance, etc.). I remember when Gabrielle was turning 30 she was like, ‘Wait, what’s the cutoff for ‘Young’?’ It’s for young women, but there’s not a community for more senior level women within digital marketing. We had conversations during the pandemic around how we both were feeling isolated and wanting a sense of community, wanting to just learn from others, whether it’s below or above us.
Back in December 2020, Gabrielle said, ‘what if we just made our own?’ And I was like, ‘yeah, it’s not a bad idea.’ Then we both felt, well, it’s about to be our first winter during the pandemic, I might as well do something to keep myself sane during the pandemic and pick up something that’s fun, instead of feeling the gloom of the pandemic and winter. We started meeting every Tuesday at 6pm. That became such a routine, where we got to get to know each other during the time where we laughed, we cried, we’d be like ‘What is this pandemic?!’
We kind of joked, a year ago before we launched, ‘what if it was just 10 people who want this?’, and we launched it and I remember we were just messaging each other while it was happening. ‘Oh my god we hit 10 people, we hit more!’ and it went back to that community and knowing that people can learn no matter what the role is. Now, it’s been really great with MKTG WMN, such as surprises like anyone feels comfortable asking for help. Recently I shared, ‘hey, I need help with a strategy for a website relaunch’ and a few different women in probably really different roles shared a lot of really great learnings that I was able to leverage. I don’t think I would have had that space in an office setting or thought about going to it in a remote setting because I would have just thought about going to the people that I knew who had done it. I remember this woman Lindsay shared, ‘I’m about to be a first time manager, what are some tips?’ and so many different women came together because if you have been a manager or you are a manager you can share those traits. Other MKTG WMN can read that too because maybe they are going through that situation and they have that place to ask those questions or even around negotiation.
Any woman goes through the same bullshit in the workplace, no matter if you’re in tech or pharma, or whatever. We wanted a space where people could talk about that and feel comfortable and also just not feel so lonely.
I think that was the mindset we were at a year ago, why not just do it ourselves? Since a year ago, we’re over 400 people, which is really exciting. We definitely want it to grow in year two, but I think also Gabrielle and I have enjoyed having a standing block for 30–45 minutes. We dedicate that space to MKTG WMN and just meet and talk about our goals or what we’ve done and our planning. ‘Alright, Tuesday 6pm that’s my time to meet with Gab’. During the pandemic, where the outside world is so uncertain this was a standing time that was consistent and structure and it was something to look forward to. I knew I had to get my stuff done for every Tuesday and have that.
I think structure back when the world was just going to shit, when we were stressed about the election or George Floyd, there are times when I just used that. We still met at Tuesday 6pm and we’re just, ‘What the fuck is going on?’ And or even being, ‘are you okay?’ It was a safe space no matter what was happening, we had that time. Even if it was ‘Alright, we’re going to get our stuff done for MKTG WMN’ and we want to bounce ideas off each other for work or talk about frustrations from the day or needing advice on anything outside of work. The Tuesday 6pm meeting was one of the times where Gabrielle told me that she was going to be a mom and it’s those special things where it’s made us closer as friends. Actually, I think it was funny, now looking back, I think there was a Tuesday meeting during it where Gab was not really feeling well. And then later on, she found out she was pregnant, which was super funny.
It’s very special the community you created, but just as much the relationship you were able to build with each other during something so difficult. Looking forward, what’s your ideal work situation with remote versus in-person?
I think it’s a good question. I think the beauty of that though is it’s kind of up to you.
Fair enough, but what about for Natalie specifically?
For me personally, it would depend on the week, but I would try to strive for a balance of it. I’d love to go to a four-day work week, which is super different. If it’s a five-day work week, on a Monday and Friday I would rather go to a space where I can meet up with other people because Monday it’s a little bit tough to get up from the weekend and get started. You just want to get organized. Fridays if I have plans with friends, especially on a nice summer day, it’s nice to plan where we’re done right around the same time we can just go somewhere.
With remote work you have agency, like sometimes I have one-on-ones with my CEO, Jason and we mostly have our one-on-ones virtually. But about once a month, we’re like, ‘Hey, you want to get breakfast at a diner in Somerville?’ and sometimes we touch on work but other times we just get to know each other. Just having that agency and flexibility to be like ‘alright, let’s meet up in person’ and catch up versus doing it so often virtually. So if there are days where I know I want to be in-person and go into the office with meetings I can have that but also if it’s a light day where I don’t have a lot of meetings or calls and I have the option to go to the office to see people but also if I want to be heads down and get out of the house. I can go to this other space because I would still feel productive but I wouldn’t have to meet coworkers.
I’m the type of person where I’d rather be out of the house. If I’m going to leave the house by 830 get there by nine, have a coffee, settle in, and do work, and give myself a routine where I can get my steps in in the morning and go for a walk first and maybe use that time in the morning to call a friend who’s also working from home… Leaving work and walking home, that’s the time I call my sister or my parents. That routine gives some structure to the day and then once I come home, I don’t touch the laptop. I can cook dinner, I can relax. I don’t want to think about work. But I think that’s how I just operate with my brain in terms of like, okay, how am I going to get done and I’m so much more productive outside than in my house.
This piece was edited from its original interview by Jenna Hasenkampf and approved by Natalie Cantave prior to publication.
Natalie Cantave (She/Her) is a Boston-based creative brand & design strategist. She’s passionate about tech & DEI and an experienced community cultivator. Underlying all of her efforts is an insatiable excitement and drive to support the creation of products, programs, events, and activations that improve the daily quality of life for underserved populations and experiences for all.
Connect with Natalie here
Learn more about MKTG WMN here
Jenna Hasenkampf (She/Her) is (currently) a Massachusetts-based writer, Mom, and Managing Director for MKG Marketing, a remote digital marketing agency. She’s worked in in-person creative agencies in San Francisco and New Orleans and is now all about that Remote life.
Check out some of Jenna’s best practices when it comes to managing meetings for a remote team and including retrospectives as part of your team’s process.
If you’re interested in sharing your experience with remote work or leading a remote team please reach out.
